Recently I began to reread this book, a study on the first 8 chapters of Romans. It has really been eye opening reading this along with its subject. Today I read a passage from this book on faith:
“Faith is always meeting a mountain, a mountain of evidence that seems to contradict God’s Word, a mountain of apparent contradiction of tangible fact- of failures in deed, as well as in the realm of feeling and suggestions- and either faith or the mountain has to go. They cannot both stand.”
This hit home today and brought to mind the New Testament’s definition of faith in Hebrews 11.1- Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the proving of things not seen. Faith is when we substantiate our hopes. It is when we make the future things present, a matter of fact, something which happened already.
Today was my first day back working with the guys after the trip. We took some time out of our morning to write out our goals for the next month. I need to get them translated but I thought I’d share some of the things they wrote for their life goals some time back.
Ivan-
I want to help orphan kids and sick people who will need my help.
I want to be a carpenter, have my own business and have people working for me.
I always want to have a good job.
I want my family to always be near me.
I want God to bless my family.
Dima-
I want to have a good job, always.
I want to be a good leader.
I want to have a good family.
I want to be a good example for everyone.
I want my family to have a place to live.
Artur-
I want to help other kids and do good things.
I want to build markets, houses, and other things.
I want to work with and help other orphans.
I want everyone to be proud of me and the things I do.
I want to become a better person than I am now.
We are at the mountain. If they want these things, really want them, then this mountain will have to move.
7 comments:
any thoughts on the whole watchman nee "church"?
i have some thoughts and it sounds as though you do as well. note to casual readers: reading this isn't really necessary. it is just pedantic ramblings and pure speculation. continue at own risk of boredom.
i think that nee is typically associated with witness lee, a man who followed nee in ministry but who seems to have differed from him.
nee started the "little flock" which seems to be be a reason for the surprising underground church growth in china. these churches were home churches and there were a lot of them. little flock churches were about indigenous leadership and a great deal of locality. these churches were well suited for china's political environment at the time, with its marxist's ideology. these churches provided a sort of grassroots movement that could remain independent of a national organization, which seems to be a strength in that social landscape. i don't think he ever intended to have a watchman nee "church."
nee was largely a church planter. he was imprisoned for something like 20 years up until the end of his life. witness lee, from what i understand, was given some authority or responsibility to continue leading the little flock churches while nee was imprisoned. lee's leadership caused some splits in the movement and deviated from the little flock. i don't know much about the impact of lee's leadership after nee died. none the less, nee and lee are kind of seen as the same. i'm not sure they are. i don't know much about the current "church." it sounds as though you are asking about something specific and recent. i've not looked into it much at all.
it concerns me when a church is based on a man, rather when it is founded on something other than Jesus Christ.
obviously, nee's books aren't canonical, but i like his writings. many of them are translated, which always impacts original intent (especially depending on the translator). he did write some in english. i'm not sure which books though. all that to say, i like the normal christian life also release of the spirit.
so what do you think?
Tim
I just want you to know how proud I am of you. May God continue to lead and direct you in the path that is needed. Diana
I think my experience with Nee and Lee tend to be more modern specifically with Lee and "The Local Church".
Admitedly it's been a while, so I'm a little rusty. My introdution to the whole movement started at a Burger King on 28th street in Grand Rapids, MI. My friend Adam and I were having lunch and he kept telling me about how he had "lived in the spirit" up until about 10:00 that morning before it left him. He also kept using the phrase "When I was a Christian..." After our two hour conversation I walked away thinking about how it all seemed to be a very mystical form of Christian principles.
To make a long story short, I learned of Lee and his mentor Nee and how Lee was involved in the underground church in China and how it continues to work it's way east and is now gaining popularity in America. It seems that our western culture has taken bits and pieces of what was the orignal to make it what it is today. Adam told me the local church how there are no distinction between clergy and congregation, anyone can speak freely. Every member of the local church uses the Bible with Lee's footnotes, they change words of hymns and how members now only visit local churches in other cities across the country.
It was very difficult to watch a friend so easily swayed by false teachings.
This all makes me leary of Watchmen and Witness, hence the question.
http://www.bcbsr.com/topics/lc.html
has a little bit more about the the local church...but it seems a bit one-sided.
Any new thoughts?
well, i read the article, which was really long. the guy makes some good points but most of them were in relation to lee. his critiques of nee usually went directly to things about lee. i do agree with his critique of nee's purgatory views though. nee was influenced by some catholic mystics which might have influenced that. i don't believe in purgatory.
i think the problem, as i said in my first comment, is that people have canonized lee's writings and have based a church on him rather than Christ. the group the article was speaking about seemed to hold lee's writings as a equal to the Bible. this is wrong. nee is brought in with that because he was influential in lee's life. in my reading of nee, particularly the normal christian life, i've not found many of the things that this article, by the bcbsr (basically a guy named steve amato), was arguing against. it was, as you said, a little one-sided, as are a lot of the things coming out of the 'local church.' the man who wrote it had a bad experience with that particular church, which i probably would have had too. i've not read anything by lee and couldn't really comment on him. i've read two books and some of two other books by nee but did not encounter the things that amato was criticizing in those books, not to say they aren't in nee's books i have not read.
all that to say, i am very sorry you friend was swayed by false teachings. i hope and pray adam will seek and find the truth in Christ, and not in something man produces.
those of you who know me, know i read a lot of different books. i rarely agree with absolutely everything the author says, if anything. Christ has been the one man who had perfect theology, perfect thought and a perfect life. not one person in history, living or dead, has got everything right. i think it is important to have our foundation in God's Word and to weigh the things we read against it.
i still would reccomend this book. i'd reccomend the Bible over it of course. this book looks at the first 8 chapters of romans. if you are going to read it, read it along with the text. we should never just accept other people's thoughts. that is dangerous and doesn't help us grow more in the knowledge of Christ.
Probably should have warned about the length of that article...sorry about that.
As I studied Nee a little more, I've come to many of the same conclusions as you have just expressed. Although he was Lee's mentor, the local church, is more of his theoology than Nees.
I may eventually get to this book, after Boenhoffer, Willard, Decker, Cahill, Miller and Proffitt...I need to read faster...
I love Watchman Nee!
His stuff has impacted me in such a deep way, I don't think I even understand it. I have read most of his books and have been so encouraged by his personal walk with Jesus. He was something special.
I am a musician and WN has inspired many of my songs. I would be honored if you would check out my music on my site. All my music is free for download. Anyway, I just thought that I'd share.
Thanks,
-Sean
________________________
www.SeanDietrich.com
"All my music is free for download."
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